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The Irony

By Patrick follow Patrick   2020 Feb 8, 5:21pm 1,749 views   81 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    

The real irony in Trump's presidency is that the corporate-owned Democrats who hate him so much were all taking bribes from businesses to drive down wages by importing illegals from Mexico ("Sanctuary!") and exporting jobs to China ("Free trade!").

Businesses thought that lower wages was all they needed to be more profitable.

But they were WRONG.

It turns out that enforcing immigration law and bringing back manufacturing from China are way more profitable than the reverse, for everyone.

When working class Americans get more income because they don't have to compete with illegals and because their manufacturing jobs came back, they spend that increased income in the US. (Mexicans in the US send their income to Mexico, and the Chinese just keep their income in China.)

Trickle down fails, because they rich just throw any more money they get into the basement on the pile of cash they already have. The economy stagnates.

But trickle up works, because the working class spends the income, then businesses benefit, and profits go up.

The whole business strategy of bribing Democrats to fuck over poor citizens was not only immoral, it wasn't even profitable! When the poor get poorer, they spend less, and businesses themselves also suffer.

Trump, bless his bizarre orange soul, has shown us the right way way to Make America Great Again, by looking after our own citizens first. Business profits follow once our working class has jobs again. The economy is on an epic roll due to Trump now. May it continue!

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41   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 10, 1:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Offshoring and illegal-immigrant labor is a form of tragedy of the commons. If only a single company does it, that company gets the benefits but they tiny downside is felt by everyone. If every company does it, then downside becomes enormous and completely outweighs the benefits. A tragedy-of-the-commons situation is something where government might have a useful role in either outlawing the situation or reworking the laws so that the beneficiaries of the bad behavior are the ones that feel the entire effect of the downside.
42   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 10, 2:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

AD says
GDP Growth, population growth, etc. does not automatically translate into improvement of standard of living or quality of living.

Who said it has to?
43   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 10, 2:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
I still say illegal immigration is not encouraged, it's not a conspiracy.

You don't think that, for example, offering free healthcare for illegal immigrants or having sanctuary cities encourage illegal immigration?
44   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Feb 10, 9:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
You don't think that, for example, offering free healthcare for illegal immigrants or having sanctuary cities encourage illegal immigration?


When Anderson Cooper asked the Democrat candidates (ie., Biden, Sanders, Warren, Klouchbar, et al.) to raise their hands if they would provide free health insurance to illegal immigrants, all the Democrats raised their hands.

All these Democrat candidates want the USA to become like California.
45   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 10, 9:54pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

SunnyvaleCA says
Offshoring and illegal-immigrant labor is a form of tragedy of the commons. If only a single company does it, that company gets the benefits but they tiny downside is felt by everyone. If every company does it, then downside becomes enormous and completely outweighs the benefits. A tragedy-of-the-commons situation is something where government might have a useful role in either outlawing the situation or reworking the laws so that the beneficiaries of the bad behavior are the ones that feel the entire effect of the downside.


Great insight @SunnyvaleCA

Yes, if one American company moves manufacturing to China and then sells in the US, they win. But if all American companies do that, then they all lose because they just impoverished their own customers by outsourcing their jobs.
46   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Feb 10, 10:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Protect yourself or hedge against offshoring by investing in an S&P 500 index fund. Most of the companies offshore and/or benefit from globalization.

Meanwhile benefit from this by buying cheap consumer goods at Costco, Dollar Tree, and Walmart.

Unfortunately due to illegal immigration, globalization and offshoring, more and more of the USA economy has mostly underwent bifurcation, the rich and the poor with a shrinking middle.
47   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Feb 10, 11:28pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
You don't think that, for example, offering free healthcare for illegal immigrants or having sanctuary cities encourage illegal immigration?


I would agree that if you removed those things, illegal immigration would be less attractive. But I do not believe those things exist for the purpose of attracting illegal immigrants. And I it is a fact we have steadily increased border security over the past decade.

I think health care policies and sanctuary cities exist in support of millions (YES MILLIONS) of illegals already here. Do those people need a path to citizenship or should we somehow send them back (whatever that means?) when they have spent decades building families and a foundation here ?

THat is the question.

I'm sure some are for genocide.

Let's get real.

In my opinion it's off the charts retarded propaganda to suggest that sanctuary cities and health care for the poorest of the millions of illegal immigrants already here is in fact actually happening for the purpose of attracting more illegal immigrants. So stupid. Asinine really.
48   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 11, 5:44am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says

In my opinion it's off the charts retarded propaganda

Just because?

Intended or not
marcus says
sanctuary cities and health care for the poorest of the millions of illegal immigrants

Attracts more poor ignorant illegals who compete with poor ignorant citizens for jobs.
49   Shaman   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 6:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Do those people need a path to citizenship or should we somehow send them back (whatever that means?) when they have spent decades building families and a foundation here ?


The Democrats don’t want them to have a path to citizenship, and never ever seriously work on such a bill unless they put enough poison pills in there to ensure that Republicans will definitely vote against it. But no effort is ever made for a bipartisan solution, even when Trump asks for one, suggests several, and even demands a solution. Nope, Democrats don’t want it. They just want an executive/judicial level of a stay of execution for the illegals, to keep the illegals knowing that they have to vote for Dems if they want to stick around. Also because illegals are cheap labor without many rights, and wealthy Democrats (and Republicans) enjoy having that cheap labor.

Once again, Democrats have created a permanent slave class. And they want the dispossessed citizenry to pay for their upkeep (welfare, housing, medical).
It’s super unfair, but if you object, some idiot math teacher will call you a racist.
50   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 11, 7:39am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
millions (YES MILLIONS) of illegals already here


Lol, not just millions.

TENS OF MILLIONS

https://thehill.com/latino/407848-yale-mit-study-22-million-not-11-million-undocumented-immigrants-in-us

Some estimate 40 million. It's utterly insane.
51   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 9:40am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
I think health care policies and sanctuary cities exist in support of millions (YES MILLIONS) of illegals already here.

Ok suppose I'm an immigrant, came here legally with a H1-B, after years got a green card. Can I get free healthcare?
Nope.
Suppose I'm an American born here, but flipping burgers for a living. Can I get free healthcare?
Nope.
Doesn't it sound bizarre that the criteria for giving a benefit would be to have violated the law. It's a reward for violating the law, is it not?

And I'm sorry there are poor people everywhere. There are destitutes, uneducated , beaten down peeps everywhere. There are people living on trash heaps, waiting for the next dumpster truck to scratch for fresher food. This is the reality of the world. The solution cannot be to let them in illegally. If you want them in, then at least do it officially and give them the same crappy benefits and responsibilities as everyone else.


Shaman says
wealthy Democrats (and Republicans) enjoy having that cheap labor

Yes many wealthy people are worried for their nannies and gardeners if the law was ever applied. That's about the extent of their concern.
52   rdm   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 10:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Shaman says
But no effort is ever made for a bipartisan solution,


Not since Trump arrived but there was a bipartisan bill passed out of the Senate while Obama was President, not perfect by any means but a decent compromise of border security and a difficult path to citizenship. The Republican House leadership would not bring it up for a vote, why? Because it would have passed.
53   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 11, 11:07am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
I think health care policies and sanctuary cities exist in support of millions (YES MILLIONS) of illegals already here. Do those people need a path to citizenship or should we somehow send them back (whatever that means?) when they have spent decades building families and a foundation here ?

Amnesty was tried in 1980's, and did not solve any problems - we still have illegals. So...no amnesty or path to citizenship. Otherwise it will continue again - citizenship for illegals, more illegals come in, 30 years later more citizenship for illegals etc. Furthermore, I am a very LEGAL immigrant. I paid the goddamn fucking taxes, YUUGE immigration lawyer fees, did not break any laws other than speeding, never took a dime in welfare or other subsidies, and somehow I now am an idiot for following the expensive rules?

marcus says
retarded propaganda to suggest that sanctuary cities and health care for the poorest of the millions of illegal immigrants already here is in fact actually happening for the purpose of attracting more illegal immigrants

Try feeding deer ans see if more of them come to feeder every time or not. Same logic.
54   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 11, 11:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

citizenship for illegals, more illegals come in, 30 years later more citizenship for illegals etc.

That is the goal. The left just hides that fact behind lies claiming that sanctuary cities and other enticements are merely to help just the illegals already here.
55   RC2006   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 11:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

California ranks last on just about every quality of life issue and it is 100% Democrats fault. We rank at the bottom of almost every stat even though we are taxed the most, where is all of our tax dollars going? How could we go from having some of the best K-12 to the worse? How could we have the largest imbalance of poor and rich? We all know the answer, what did anybody think would happen with importing uneducated third world ditch diggers from south of the boarder to replaced the native middle class that was once a staple of CA.
56   RC2006   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 11:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Anyone that says democrats of today are not 100% pro illegal are delusional, almost all of the democrats in house and senate have totally flipped on the issue over the last 20yrs.
57   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 11, 12:01pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

RC2006 says
Anyone that says democrats of today are not 100% pro illegal are delusional, almost all of the democrats in house and senate have totally flipped on the issue over the last 20yrs.


Yes especially the Candidates for President. Dems need the max influx of illegals to replace the losses for the Dems of the White working class vote and an increasing loss of the Black vote.
58   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 11, 12:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

RC2006 says
e rank at the bottom of almost every stat even though we are taxed the most

We (TX) are taxed much less and are at bottom of most statistics as well...showing that taxes do not correlate with life quality and services we get...at least no services are cheap for us but you pay up the wazoo for that.
59   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Feb 11, 5:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Some estimate 40 million. It's utterly insane.


So, then you must understand that the health care and sanctuary are far more about those millions or tens of millions than it is about attracting new illegal immigrants.

Especially considering that any honest person knows that bipartisan support that has existed for massively increasing border security going back more than a decade. Yeah sure , the democrats support it on the down low, becasue of the politics, making it possible for Trump to do a hard sell on the lie that only he cares about border security, putting the democrats in a tough spot politically.

But it's a scumbag move on his part. And it's sort of a scumbag move on the part of the Trump supporters that pass on the lie that democrats don't care about border security, or for that matter that health care for the poor among those tens of millions is about attracting new illegal immigrants. Such utter bullshit. Have you know shame ?

The more people knowingly sell such lies the more deeply we go in to an Owellian nightmare.
60   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 11, 5:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Have you know shame ?

Known.
61   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Feb 11, 5:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HeadSet says
That is the goal


More like unintended outcome than goal. But we meanwhile have continued to increase the border security, steadily.

rd6B says
So...no amnesty or path to citizenship.


So what do you propose ? Is it rounding up however many millions of people it is ? Sending them to Mexico ? Genocide for those inferiors ? What ?

In my opinion, not only do you not have the answer, I don't think you even understand the question.
62   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 11, 6:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

RC2006 says
Anyone that says democrats of today are not 100% pro illegal are delusional, almost all of the democrats in house and senate have totally flipped on the issue over the last 20yrs.


Because that's the way the US Chamber of Commerce wants it!

The Democrats sold out, big time.
63   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Feb 11, 6:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

"We have candidates on the debate stage talking about open borders and decriminalizing illegal immigration. They’re talking about doing away with nuclear energy and fracking. You’ve got Bernie Sanders talking about letting criminals and terrorists vote from jail cells. It doesn’t matter what you think about any of that, or if there are good arguments — talking about that is not how you win a national election. "

James Carville
-Bill Clinton's Former Chief Strategist
64   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2020 Feb 11, 6:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
But it's a scumbag move on his part. And it's sort of a scumbag move on the part of the Trump supporters that pass on the lie that democrats don't care about border security, or for that matter that health care for the poor among those tens of millions is about attracting new illegal immigrants. Such utter bullshit. Have you know shame ?


The Democrats and the Indigo Girls (Upper Class Folksingers; both parents well off non-rural professionals) have this to say:


Shame on you! Shame! Shame, Shame! If you don't want to be evil, vote for Bernie!
65   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 11, 7:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
So what do you propose ? Is it rounding up however many millions of people it is ? Sending them to Mexico ? Genocide for those inferiors ? What ?

My answer is - Just let everyone know that if you break the law, incl not following immigration rules, you are never getting citizenship. Then, fine companies $MILLION for each employed illegal. Most of them will leave voluntarily.

And what do you propose - legalize another 20M illegals? Then 30 yrs from now another 30 M? Does not sound like a good plan.
66   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Feb 11, 7:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I'm seeing more of this mantra : " Do not reward them. Deport them ! "

If you reward them and let them stay, it just encourages even more illegal immigration.

That just motivates some of the undocumented immigrants to have children in the USA in hopes of getting a favorable ruling from a left wing immigration judge.

Of course some undocumented immigrants who were brought over at a very young age would have a very hard time to return to their home countries. They've assimilated and went to school in the USA, and are net-positive or contributing members to society. They essentially are USA citizens in the way they live, study, and work.
67   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 11, 7:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

And what do you propose - legalize another 20M illegals? Then 30 yrs from now another 30 M? Does not sound like a good plan.

For the left, that is a great plan. Remember, flooding the country with illegals is the goal.
68   ad   ignore (0)   2020 Feb 11, 7:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HeadSet says
For the left, that is a great plan. Remember, flooding the country with illegals is the goal.


Part of that is based on the Cloward - Piven Strategy. Overwhelm USA society with 3rd world immigrants and put a strain on social services ranging from free lunch programs at schools to emergency room care.

Professors Cloward and Piven can be seen in a photo behind Bill Clinton when he signed into law the Motor Voter Act.

That same act allows undocumented immigrants in California, New York, and other states who acquire a drivers license to easily register to vote. All they have to do is "attest they are American citizens" and then just wait for the absentee ballot to arrive in the mail or to show up at the voting precinct.
69   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 10:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Especially considering that any honest person knows that bipartisan support that has existed for massively increasing border security going back more than a decade.


If there were they would pass laws in this direction.

If anything we see bipartisan support for doing nothing. (except 'racist' Trump) .
70   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 11, 10:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
you must understand that the health care and sanctuary are far more about those millions or tens of millions than it is about attracting new illegal immigrants.


If so, why would you support these particular people more than US citizens?
There are plenty of poor citizens.
There are also billions of people outside the US who have worse humanitarian situations than people coming into the US.
71   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Feb 12, 5:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
RC2006 says
Anyone that says democrats of today are not 100% pro illegal are delusional, almost all of the democrats in house and senate have totally flipped on the issue over the last 20yrs.


Because that's the way the US Chamber of Commerce wants it!

The Democrats sold out, big time.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/02/07/tucker_carlson_dem_immigration_bill_would_make_america_a_borderless_rest_area_for_the_worlds_worst_predators_and_parasites.html
72   komputodo   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 12, 5:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
The real irony in Trump's presidency is that the corporate-owned Democrats who hate him so much were all taking bribes from businesses to drive down wages by importing illegals from Mexico ("Sanctuary!") and exporting jobs to China ("Free trade!").

Businesses thought that lower wages was all they needed to be more profitable.

I don't know why it's ironic...The dems were bringing in good money for themselves and Trump is fucking it up for them....And 2, the idea of business profits is so 1990's...It's all about 0% interest loans, stock buybacks, massive leverage in the equity markets....and kicking the can down the road....they can easily afford that 4th jet and 5th vacation mansion.
73   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Feb 12, 7:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
marcus says
Especially considering that any honest person knows that bipartisan support that has existed for massively increasing border security going back more than a decade.


If there were they would pass laws in this direction.





Approved funding.
:
74   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 12, 7:17am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

walls arent racist?
75   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Feb 12, 7:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Heraclitusstudent says
marcus says
Especially considering that any honest person knows that bipartisan support that has existed for massively increasing border security going back more than a decade.


If there were they would pass laws in this direction.





Approved funding.
:


Are you really trying to imply that the funding for that staffing was approved by the Dem held house and Senate under President Obama?
76   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 12, 8:28am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

CovfefeButDeadly says
Are you really trying to imply that the funding for that staffing was approved by the Dem held house and Senate under President Obama?

funding is kinda only semi-relevant. Perhaps it is used to build genderfluid detention facilities and sex change operations for border-guards. We can look at who rules sanctuary cities, who advocates free stuff for people who break immigration laws, and numbers of actual deportations.
77   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 12, 1:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Approved funding.

Is that working? Or is this just pretending to do something when in fact the most obvious is not done.

If they really wanted to capture illegal, they would just show up with a U-Haul at Home Depot.
They would show up at farms and fine farmers using illegal workers.
They would refuse US citizenship for children of parents in the country illegally or on tourist visas.
They would watch bank accounts of wealthy people and track payments to nannies not reported.

Does any of this have bi-partisan support?
If you scratch a little, the establishment (both parties) fully intends to grow the population of this country through immigration to compensate for the low birth rates. The same is happening in all western countries. And low birth rates is a consequence of other choices.
78   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 12, 1:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

If you scratch a little, the establishment (both parties) fully intends to grow the population of this country through immigration to compensate for the low birth rates. The same is happening in all western countries.

True, but an insane policy. A stabilized population is needed if we want to maintain a 1st World society without over depleting and over polluting. No one benefits from a mass influx of poor and illiterate except those at the top looking for slaves and vote packing.
79   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Feb 12, 10:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
If they really wanted to capture illegal,


That's not what I said.

I was talking Border security. I'm didn't say anything about capturing illegals.

But if democrats were trying so hard to attract illegals, and get them in,(as Patrick loves to say) why would they have supported (with their actions) beefed up border security ?

WE got to where the influx of illegals was actually negative (net outflow) for a few years there. Way less coming in, and more leaving than coming in.

marcus says
Heraclitusstudent says
marcus says
Especially considering that any honest person knows that bipartisan support that has existed for massively increasing border security going back more than a decade.


If there were they would pass laws in this direction.
80   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2020 Feb 13, 10:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
I was talking Border security. I'm didn't say anything about capturing illegals.

Not sure how you can separate the 2. Border security means catching illegals and sending them back.
You seem to be saying that we should have patrols to catch people jumping the fence, but if the same people make it to 1 mile from the frontier, then we should not only welcome them but offer them free healthcare.
What kind of silly hypocrisy is that?

You still haven't explain why these particular people deserve free healthcare, but no one else does. For example why do people immigrating LEGALLY don't deserve free healthcare.

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