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Between a rock and a hard place

By bob2356 follow bob2356   2017 Mar 7, 6:31am 5,364 views   15 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Loved trumps weekend tweetstorm that he was wiretapped. He managed to blow his two biggest news problems, sessions and health care, out of the news cycle for at least a couple weeks. Maybe even longer. Brilliant move, PT Barnum couldn't have done better.

Problem 2, replacing obamacare with the proposed new health care plan, is going to be more fun to watch than girls losing their tops on a water slide. The republicans are simply screwed. Any republican that isn't on board with a plan that meets the approval of the koch money machine, which means basically total repeal, will a)see campaign contributions tank when the koch organization funded 501c's stop sending money and b)face a massively funded (with what would have been their campaign money, too funny) primary challenge the next election cycle. Any republican than does get on board with a plan that meets the approval of the koch money machine will be voted out of office as thousands of their voters lose health care coverage. It's tough when you can't just sit in the back row and whine any more.

Selling your soul to the devil has consequences.

#politics

1   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Mar 7, 6:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

A slight majority of Americans favor repeal of Obamacare. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/repeal_of_health_care_law_favoroppose-1947.html

Hospitals likely benefit under Obamacare as bills from the uninsured are less of a problem. Single payer is the way to go, but eligibility for non-citizens would need to be forbidden. And removing illegals who come from countries where they have poor access to medical care, and who access expensive medical care in US ER's would help lower overall costs.

Educating 'Mericans about the dangers of stuffing their faces, smoking, tanning, and not exercising may hep long term. But should the rest of us have to pay for folks who refuse to engage in healthy lifestyle choices?

2   bob2356   ignore (5)   2017 Mar 7, 7:54am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Blurtman says

A slight majority of Americans favor repeal of Obamacare.

Not my point. The game with no winning moves the repubs are going to have to play repealing aca is my point.

Blurtman says

And removing illegals who come from countries where they have poor access to medical care, and who access expensive medical care in US ER's would help lower overall costs.

The numbers I've seen say er spending is about 2% of total health care spending and uninsured is 15% of er visits and illegals are 25% of uninsured. I don't think 25% of 15% of 2% is the p[ace to look for substantial savings in overall costs.

You need to look where the real money is spent to get real savings. Insurance costs, billing costs, system wide profits, pharma are a good start.

Blurtman says

But should the rest of us have to pay for folks who refuse to engage in healthy lifestyle choices?

Health insurers charge hefty (up to 50% now I believe) premium surcharges for smoking, obesity. age, gender, family history, job risk, where you live, and preexisting conditions. Checking for healthy diet would be pretty impractical to do and unhealthy diets almost always lead to obesity anyway. Exercise doesn't mean being healthy, it means being fit. I've personally seen very fit people drop dead and given them cpr. Twice. Mandatory company wellness programs reduce health premiums based on good blood work and health factors or substantially increase them for bad blood work (which can catch heavy drinkers, drug abusers, and poor eaters) and poor health factors.

Why do you feel you are paying for other folks lifestyle when health insurance companies tack on big charges for the things you are complaining about?

3   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Mar 7, 8:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Why do you feel you are paying for other folks lifestyle when health insurance companies tack on big charges for the things you are complaining about?

I am no fan of middlemen. Single payer with price negotiating power is the way to go. It will be more palatable if wedge issues like illegals accessing single payer is not an issue. Don't need to enable the divide and conquer game, and frankly, we cannot afford to pay for citizens of other countries.

4   bob2356   ignore (5)   2017 Mar 7, 8:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Blurtman says

bob2356 says

Why do you feel you are paying for other folks lifestyle when health insurance companies tack on big charges for the things you are complaining about?

I am no fan of middlemen. Single payer with price negotiating power is the way to go. It will be more palatable if wedge issues like illegals accessing single payer is not an issue. Don't need to enable the divide and conquer game, and frankly, we cannot afford to pay for citizens of other countries.

Your answer has no relevance to my question.

Single payer is a meaningless buzzword. There are dozens of very different types of single payer systems.

5   bob2356   ignore (5)   2017 Mar 7, 8:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Your answer has no relevance to my question.

Isn't that YOUR typical MO when asked to back up your statements??

Maybe you should go ask those 3.7 MILLION burglary victims what they think.

Remind me again how you use your gun to defend your house when you aren't home. Oh right, I forgot that you can't follow topics and as usual you were totally clueless what the subject being discussed was. Then after spewing your usual irrelevant nonsense having nothing to do with the topic at hand disappeared. But that is certainly your typical MO. Good to see some things are consistent in life.

6   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Mar 7, 8:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Checking for healthy diet would be pretty impractical to do and unhealthy diets almost always lead to obesity anyway.

-----------

I don't believe this is true. Do you have any data to back it up?

7   MisdemeanorRebel   ignore (3)   2017 Mar 7, 9:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Blurtman says

we cannot afford to pay for citizens of other countries.

Yep, Welfare States are incompatible with Mass Immigration.

That's yet another reason why neoliberals love it; eventually they'll be able to claim we need to dump these programs.

And the Teachers, College Admins, Gov't Employees, and MIC workers, all of whom receive top-notch, politically-safe benefits will endorse to lower their taxes.

8   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Mar 7, 9:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

health insurance companies tack on big charges for the things

Is that based upon self-reporting? In the absence of confirmatory diagnostic testing, relying on self-reporting will likely result in others paying the costs. And do you have any data that demonstrates that these "big charges" completely pay for the healthcare of those who engage in unwise lifestyle choices?

9   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Mar 7, 9:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

We cannot afford to pay for ...

Lol

We can't afford to pay for Basic Healthcare.

We can, however, somehow afford to pay for :

War in Iraq, so long as we are attacked by Saudi Arabia first.

War against our own citizens who utilize plants and flowers that the Sharia pushers don't approve of

Militarized Police State and their prisons

Etc., etc, etc...

10   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Mar 7, 9:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Rather than pontificate over hypotheticals, why not post some data. Tables for insurance costs and the accompanying up charges should suffice.

11   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2017 Mar 7, 9:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Shut up Liberals about health we've seen how you approach it. Tax everyone who eats the food factory poison they sell in the grocery stores with impunity to any scrutiny.
How do you guys reconcile it now that Wholefoods isn't so big anymore? Now everyone is eating the same carcinogenic crap, the same HFCS enhanced mystery meat and GMO goop?

Liberals idea of treating the victims is to tax them for the report. The longer your complaint the more you pay.
The problem isn't the problem, you're the solution, tax the shit out of them, feed them beans and fuck them up the ass. That's Liberal 101.

Did Chuck Schumer actually have the Bawls to say on National television Yesterday "If the GOP thinks they are just going to ram this thing through at the 11th hour without any scrutiny, that's just not how things are done."

Then Today on NPR the Broward representative in the Florida house, gave a rebuttal on Rick Scot's State of the State address today, which I didn't hear. But I did catch this state rep say "What Rick Scot didn't say in his speech, for the last 7 years Rick Scot has only brought teenager jobs to this State, while the Middle Class suffers."
Then pretty much went on to blame every shitty thing about Obama and the Rotten shit those Liberals sons of bitches did for the last 8 years on Rick Scot.

Classy Shit right there. Some petty jive ass chicken shit alright. Everyone in Fla Government from State, City County are 95% Black. These people are in deep panic that their $150K jobs are in serious Jeopardy.

12   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Mar 7, 10:40am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Selling your soul to the devil has consequences.

There is no need to insult the devil by comparing him to the Koch brothers.

13   Shaman   ignore (2)   2017 Mar 7, 2:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

errc says

Checking for healthy diet would be pretty impractical to do and unhealthy diets almost always lead to obesity anyway.

And yet, the AMA has lobbied insurance companies to require that they withhold payments to Dieticians unless a doctor gets a cut of the bill. This makes insurance effectively void for Dietician services unless they are provided in hospital setting (by which time the patient is already far too sick). Since nobody can work for free, probably 99% of freelance dietitians don't accept insurance.
All this while Americans grow steadily more unhealthy from a dreadful diet.
And medical bills rise.

14   bob2356   ignore (5)   2017 Mar 11, 9:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Blurtman says

Is that based upon self-reporting? In the absence of confirmatory diagnostic testing, relying on self-reporting will likely result in others paying the costs. And do you have any data that demonstrates that these "big charges" completely pay for the healthcare of those who engage in unwise lifestyle choices?

Some self reporting, some not. Get caught lying and it's insurance fraud. You could be prosecuted. The big charges can be a 50% premium increase. How do you know who is paying for who? Smokers/drinkers/fatties may be subsidizing healthy people. Insurance companies are pretty good at actuarial work, so the numbers are probably pretty close.
https://www.healthmarkets.com/content/smoking-and-health-insurance

Many employers, with legislation coming right now to make it much more punitive not to join, have wellness programs that report your blood work to the insurance companies. The health insurers sometimes ask to have access to your medical records to get a policy. You can refuse and go elsewhere, but if it's a company policy that may be tough.

15   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2017 Mar 12, 7:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Liberals talking about selling souls to the Devil that's rich.


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