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The government can use secret evidence you can't see to seize your passport.

By bob2356 follow bob2356   2015 Aug 1, 7:56am 13,130 views   26 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Republican Representative Ted Poe of Texas sponsored the Foreign Terrorist Organization Passport Revocation Act. The bill was passed July 28 after only 15 minutes of debate and is currently being considered by the Senate.

This bill is a stricter application of the already existing laws. The current law allows passports to be revoked for a number of reasons, but the individual has the right to contest the decision. The new bill, however, does away with the appeal process, thereby eliminating due process.

Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute commented that the U.S. Secretary of State could take his passport without the burden of proof and keep all the evidence secret and never be required to justify this act. “And this is considered ‘uncontroversial’ in the United States?” he asked.

More unchecked governmental power in the "land of the free" as it's laughing called overseas any more. Anyone out there that believes that if this is passed it will never be misused please contact me about some swamp land I have for sale in florida. Ok now let's hear from all the right wingnuts explaining why obedience is freedom and freedom is obedience.

#politics

1   indigenous   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 8:09am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

What's the problem, the Patriot Act never gets abused, the least abused part IMO would be civil forfeiture.

2   bob2356   ignore (5)   2015 Aug 1, 8:57am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

indigenous says

What's the problem, the Patriot Act never gets abused, the least abused part IMO would be civil forfeiture.

Civil forfeiture isn't part of the patriot act. It's from the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984, brought to you by Ronald Reagan.

3   indigenous   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 9:00am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Civil forfeiture isn't part of the patriot act. It's from the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984, brought to you by Ronald Reagan.

I believe that the increase in abuse correlates to the Pariot act

4   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 9:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Republican Representative Ted Poe of Texas sponsored the Foreign Terrorist Organization Passport Revocation Act. The bill was passed July 28 after only 15 minutes of debate and is currently being considered by the Senate.

This bill is a stricter application of the already existing laws. The current law allows passports to be revoked for a number of reasons, but the individual has the right to contest the decision. The new bill, however, does away with the appeal process, thereby eliminating due process.

Why make it easier on terrorists?
The citizen cannot get all their rights back without first eliminating terrorism. It's as simple as that.

5   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 9:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Why make it easier on terrorists?

The citizen cannot get all their rights back without first eliminating terrorism. It's as simple as that.

Have you read the Bill of Rights? I don't remember anything in there about citizens losing their rights because of terrorists.

6   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 10:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Why make it easier on terrorists?


The citizen cannot get all their rights back without first eliminating terrorism. It's as simple as that.

Have you read the Bill of Rights? I don't remember anything in there about citizens losing their rights because of terrorists.

The Bill of Rights is not God's word engraved in stone. When it's a question of life and death, the Bill of Rights is the last thing on my mind.

7   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 10:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

The Bill of Rights is not God's word engraved in stone.

And that's the point. God has no place in the laws of the US.

Strategist says

When it's a question of life and death, the Bill of Rights is the last thing on my mind.

So, who decides when it's life or death? When your wife's ex husband decides to confiscate your passport because he's pissed at you, will you feel the same way?

8   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 10:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

When it's a question of life and death, the Bill of Rights is the last thing on my mind.

So, who decides when it's life or death? When your wife's ex husband decides to confiscate your passport because he's pissed at you, will you feel the same way?

If the government is confiscating passports of certain people deemed to be a threat to the citizen, I'm all for it. If an individual the government misuses his authority, I'm all for punishing that individual.
My point is, abiding by the "Bill of Rights" like a religion is a bad idea. The world is a different place today, with a different set of threats, which require a more updated Bill of Rights.

9   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 10:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

The citizen cannot get all their rights back without first eliminating terrorism. It's as simple as that.

I agree.
Signed
Kim Jong UN and every known dictator in the world. The people will get their rights and freedoms back when terrorism ends.

10   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 11:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

lostand confused says

Strategist says

The citizen cannot get all their rights back without first eliminating terrorism. It's as simple as that.

I agree.

Signed

Kim Jong UN and every known dictator in the world. The people will get their rights and freedoms back when terrorism ends.

I do not agree.
Signed
Osama Bin Laden and every known terrorist in the world. The only rights people get comes from Allah.

11   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 11:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

You have to be careful quoting the Founding Fathers but this one still rings true:

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

12   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 11:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bin laden won-our own people are asking to take away our rights.

13   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2015 Aug 1, 11:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

We need more guns at the airport not less.
These Jihaists are fundemental pussies, it's as simple as that. They prey on the airports and other places people are the most venerable and most week with their guard down.
If more people carried guns in places we normally don't allow them, there would be less jihadist terrorists.

I bet it will be cold day in hell before a jihad fucker tries to crash a Redneck art review again.

14   bob2356   ignore (5)   2015 Aug 1, 12:19pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

If the government is confiscating passports of certain people deemed to be a threat to the citizen, I'm all for it. If an individual the government misuses his authority, I'm all for punishing that individual.

I knew we could get the catch 22/brave new world crowd out and speaking double speak. Since the reason for confiscation will be classified and there is no legal recourse how will anyone know if someone misuses his authority? Oh yes of course the government never makes mistakes or screws someone to settle scores. It's never happened, not once, ever. I still have that swampland in florida you can get for a great price. It's not in my name, but hey that's just a technical detail we'll get fixed after you pay me, cash only.

The government can deem people to be a threat in court using lawyers and due process while following the bill of rights to the same exact end. Except it's more work and mistakes can't be hidden. Damn all those fucking trees sure make it hard to see the forest.

15   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 1:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

tatupu70 says

You have to be careful quoting the Founding Fathers but this one still rings true:

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

If Ben Franklin was alive today, he would say:
Those who surrender to terrorism, have neither freedom or security.

lostand confused says

Bin laden won-our own people are asking to take away our rights.

911 proved Bin Laden won. Lets not make the same mistakes again.

CaptainShuddup says

These Jihaists are fundemental pussies, it's as simple as that. They prey on the airports and other places people are the most venerable and most week with their guard down.

Because that's where cowards can kill the most women and children.

16   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 1, 1:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Strategist says

If the government is confiscating passports of certain people deemed to be a threat to the citizen, I'm all for it. If an individual the government misuses his authority, I'm all for punishing that individual.

I knew we could get the catch 22/brave new world crowd out and speaking double speak. Since the reason for confiscation will be classified and there is no legal recourse how will anyone know if someone misuses his authority?

They should be classified. We don't want the whole world to know state secrets on how we catch terrorists. If terrorists find out they will find an alternative route to come after us.

17   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 1, 2:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

If Ben Franklin was alive today, he would say:

Those who surrender to terrorism, have neither freedom or security.

Exactly--and bypassing laws like this, you are surrendering to terrorism. The terrorists want you to live in fear.

18   bob2356   ignore (5)   2015 Aug 1, 4:08pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Strategist says

If the government is confiscating passports of certain people deemed to be a threat to the citizen, I'm all for it. If an individual the government misuses his authority, I'm all for punishing that individual.

I knew we could get the catch 22/brave new world crowd out and speaking double speak. Since the reason for confiscation will be classified and there is no legal recourse how will anyone know if someone misuses his authority?

They should be classified. We don't want the whole world to know state secrets on how we catch terrorists. If terrorists find out they will find an alternative route to come after us.

Nice job avoiding the issues. Really seriously I can understand it's hard to see that great big elephant in a little tiny room for a person like you.

There are ways to handle classified information in court without resorting to being communist russia or nazi germany. It's done all the time. Want to duck and shuffle some more comrade? Got your jackboots all shined up ready to go?

19   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 2, 8:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Nice job avoiding the issues. Really seriously I can understand it's hard to see that great big elephant in a little tiny room for a person like you.

There are ways to handle classified information in court without resorting to being communist russia or nazi germany. It's done all the time. Want to duck and shuffle some more comrade? Got your jackboots all shined up ready to go?

These courts are a joke. Millions will get spent for months on end, only to result in a terrorist getting off on technicalities.
If you are not a criminal or a terrorist, you will have nothing to worry about. Relax dude.

20   bob2356   ignore (5)   2015 Aug 2, 8:39am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

If you are not a criminal or a terrorist, you will have nothing to worry about. Relax dude.

Yea sure right, the government never makes mistakes and people never drop a dime on someone to even the score. Too bad you don't even begin to understand the most basic fundamental principles that are the basis of the society you live in. Don't worry though, there are more than enough like you that eventually you will get to live in the society that you deserve. In the meantime go back to the basement and continue wetting your pants about terrorists under every rock. Adult diapers are on sale at walmart this week, stock up.

21   jazz_music   ignore (13)   2015 Aug 5, 12:50pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Consider that we have serious corrections to make in our country since merely by association you are a criminal or a terrorist if you are an American citizen.

The only countries that would support USA's constant use of force as legitimate are England with their banking cartels and Israel with their suppression of all neighboring countries.

So our military industry remains as out of control as our bankers. The only changes we got going here is that our election process has been rendered neutralized by supreme court actions under monetary force from super-wealthy lobbies.

You flag-wavers who claim things are going pretty good here are checking out of reality, apparently giving your misplaced blind approval to our high and mighty oligarchs. You are such willfully ignorant cowards that you would only make sense if you're actually here to perform as PYSOPS agents.

Wake the fuck up people! Populist activism has to get strong enough to result in immunity to the daily propaganda.

22   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 5, 12:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

You flag-wavers who claim things are going pretty good here are checking out of reality, apparently giving your misplaced blind approval to our high and mighty oligarchs. You are such willfully ignorant cowards that you would only make sense if you're actually here to perform as PYSOPS agents.

Wake the fuck up people! Populist activism has to get strong enough to result in immunity to the daily propaganda.

23   Strategist   ignore (2)   2015 Aug 5, 1:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

bob2356 says

Yea sure right, the government never makes mistakes and people never drop a dime on someone to even the score.

Sure they do. So what.
People make mistakes while driving, so cars should be banned?

bob2356 says

Too bad you don't even begin to understand the most basic fundamental principles that are the basis of the society you live in.

I don't think you do.

bob2356 says

Don't worry though, there are more than enough like you that eventually you will get to live in the society that you deserve.

A safe, prosperous and scientifically advanced society. I deserve it.

24   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2015 Aug 5, 1:03pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Sure they do. So what.

People make mistakes while driving, so cars should be banned?

That's why you have checks and balances. Why you must allow the accused to defend himself or protest in this case..

25   bob2356   ignore (5)   2015 Aug 6, 3:49am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Yea sure right, the government never makes mistakes and people never drop a dime on someone to even the score.

Sure they do. So what.

People make mistakes while driving, so cars should be banned?

That is so idiotic I have to believe it's a joke. WTF does driving have to do with the subject at hand, the government having the ability to punish you with no legal recourse or even being able to see the evidence against you? No one could be that stupid, at least I don't think anyone could be that stupid. I certainly could be wrong.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Don't worry though, there are more than enough like you that eventually you will get to live in the society that you deserve.

A safe, prosperous and scientifically advanced society. I deserve it.

All you had to do is say Heil Hitler to be part of a very safe, prosperous, and scientifically advanced society. How well did that work out? Totalitarian societies can and have been safe, prosperous, and advanced. If you don't know why it matters then I can't begin explain it to you.

26   jazz_music   ignore (13)   2015 Aug 6, 11:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Why do people relate to cartoons so easily?

Why don't people feel insulted by oversimplification?


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