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Civil Debate

By Patrick follow Patrick   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 545,129 views   588 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Patrick.net is an anonymous forum where ideas censored in the mainstream press are available for discussion by all in a civil manner.

The question for any comment will be: "Is there good will in this comment?" A little teasing is OK, but outright hate for "the other side" is not. If it's just hate, please don't post it. Post something constructive instead. Something that unifies us rather than divides us even more.

Freedom of speech is nothing other than the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship. But it is possible to express these ideas with good will toward that person who is offended.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.


The least popular ideas are the censor's wedge.

I especially want people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

The goal is for patrick.net to be a place where anyone can amicably discuss anything with others, anonymously, without being subject to the PC police who have effectively eliminated free speech in the United States and many other countries. Deliberate offense is contrary to this goal. Please don't deliberately insult anyone. It may make you feel evil-good for a moment, but it is counterproductive.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is no problem. Enjoy your freedom on this site, but please try to keep it about ideas and not about the other users or the site itself. I love Texas Congressman Dan Crenshaw's philosophy about political debate:

https://patrick.net/post/1326765/2019-08-23-perfect-description-of-how-public-debate-should-be

There are many ideas that we will never agree on. The left and the right have different ways of approaching governance, based on contrasting philosophies. But many of the ultimate goals — economic prosperity, better health care and education, etc. — are the same. We just don’t share the same vision of how to achieve them.

How, then, do we live together in this world of differing ideas? For starters, let’s agree that the ideas are fair game. If you think my idea is awful, you should say as much. But there is a difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person behind that idea. Labeling someone as an “-ist” who believes in an “-ism” because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun.

Similarly, people too often attack not just an idea but also the supposed intent behind an idea. That raises the emotional level of the debate and might seem like it strengthens the attacker’s side, but it’s a terrible way to make a point. Assuming the worst about your opponents’ intentions has the effect of demonizing their ideas, removing the need for sound counter-reasoning and fact-based argument. That’s not a good environment for the exchange of ideas.


The primary moderation rule is just to be reasonably kind. Personal attacks solve nothing, and in fact get us further away from solving anything. Examine what is said, not who speaks, and try to acknowledge whatever truth there is in what the other person is saying before attacking the flaws in their argument.

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« First    « Previous    Comments 549 - 588 of 588    Last »

549   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 10:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Seriously, I am going to delete all TDS because it is thinly disguised incitement to murder.

It's not funny anymore. The left is literally murdering people because of TDS.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-man-targeting-white-person-killed-motorcyclist

These are not "isolated" incidents. They follow directly from pervasive leftist hate in the media and in academia.

It is preparation for genocide.
550   mell   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 11:04am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Seriously, I am going to delete all TDS because it is thinly disguised incitement to murder.

It's not funny anymore. The left is literally murdering people because of TDS.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-man-targeting-white-person-killed-motorcyclist

These are not "isolated" incidents. They follow directly from pervasive leftist hate in the media and in academia.

It is preparation for genocide.


Wow this is insane. Quickly googled and not too much in the media about it (mostly smaller unknown new sites). Have to give credit to buzzfeednews which actually reported on it.
551   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Jul 13, 11:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

mell says
Cmon these incidents are not isolated


Actually they are. They are not in any way what BLM people wanted.

WE all know who benefits from those events.

This is how authoritarian governments come to be.
552   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 11:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
https://www.foxnews.com/us/wisconsin-man-targeting-white-person-killed-motorcyclist

Bond of $1M after the guy fucking admitted he was guilty? WTF is up with our criminal justice system? Dude likely doesn't have $100k to get out driving his dad's 2004 truck, but fuck that, he shouldn't even have the option to get out. No bond. Period.
553   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 12:24pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
mell says
Cmon these incidents are not isolated


Actually they are. They are not in any way what BLM people wanted.

WE all know who benefits from those events.

This is how authoritarian governments come to be.


Yelling "WHITE PEOPLE ARE EVIL" is unrelated to the deliberate murders of white people? No sane person thinks they are disconnected.

Nope, it's direct, causal, and deliberate incitement to murder.

BLM is a terrorist organization incorporated in Delaware, funded by Thousand Eyes, which has a huge endowment of unexplained origin.

Murder white people out of racist hatred.

We already have a Democrat authoritarian government which enforces laws in an utterly one-sided way, where to say "White lives matter" is racism, but "Black lives matter" is not.

All that is missing is the false-flag operation analogous to the burning of the Reichstag and Democrats will use this as an excuse to begin the mass executions of white people. Ironically by self-hating white people.
554   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 13, 1:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
mell says
Cmon these incidents are not isolated


Actually they are. They are not in any way what BLM people wanted.

WE all know who benefits from those events.

This is how authoritarian governments come to be.


BLM doesn’t believe what you want them to believe Marcus. It’s funny that you have to create an alternate belief structure for them in order to justify your continued support.

But you don’t need to take my word for it. You can get it straight from the horses mouth. No doubt at all that BLM wants the authoritarian government:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/

555   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 1:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

mell says
Floyd had a big rap sheet including armed robbery and was high on many drugs and aggressive and tried to pay with counterfeit money

You could tell that the cop who had a knee on his neck was weary. He had already been fighting this thug who had been resisting a felony arrest and was using standard operating procedure to restrain him. Had he lifted his knee Floyd probably would have run or attacked. Floyd was a violent thug under the influence of illegal drugs. He was infected with Covid-19 and had comorbidities. To charge the cop with murder was ridiculous. Expect another round of chaos when the jury returns a verdict of not guilty.
556   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 1:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Actually they are. They are not in any way what BLM people wanted.

What do you THINK BLM is in support of? Their own website talks of the Marxist revolution they are planning. All of the useful idiots currently supporting them on the street will be rewarded with a bullet to the head or a Zyklon B shower.
557   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 4:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Patrick
I think the newest format here, with @marcus and some others being moderated, will change the site to an echo chamber, at which point posting here will become a boring "preaching to crowd". Not that it is much of my business, but I liked the previous policy "talk about everything but do not offend other users" better.
558   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 13, 5:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Brd6 says
@Patrick
I think the newest format here, with @marcus and some others being moderated, will change the site to an echo chamber, at which point posting here will become a boring "preaching to crowd". Not that it is much of my business, but I liked the previous policy "talk about everything but do not offend other users" better.


I disagree. I used to be of your thinking, but no longer. I have a number of disagreements with many of the posters, in particular Wookie Man and 10 lb bass but they pale in importance to the garbage and gaslighting being spewed by the left. So I choose to address the dangerous crap the left is doing.

And in particular I think George Bush was acting on the best intel he had at the time post 9/11. I have to study up some more...there’s a few books I’ve had on the back burner....but I’m guessing that alone could be an epic thread. Once I’m read up on everything...I have no problem taking on the entire site.
559   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 5:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
I disagree. I used to be of your thinking, but no longer. I have a number of disagreements with many of the posters, in particular Wookie Man and 10 lb bass but they pale in importance to the garbage and gaslighting being spewed by the left. So I choose to address the dangerous crap the left is doing.


The left has descended from cancellations to firings to beatings of people for wearing a red hat, then riots, looting, and now into outright murder.

I'm done with leftists who are so filled with hate for Trump that they will literally murder those who dare to have a differing opinion.

Prediction: leftist murders of anyone who disagrees with them is just ramping up. They will kill, and kill, and kill again.
560   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 13, 5:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
This is how authoritarian governments come to be.



Authoritarian Governments come about when a segment of society is scapegoated for all problems, and when what people do TODAY is excused without punishment, but what some people of some group did 200 years ago is used to justify discriminating against people who didn't do anything wrong TODAY.

And the Media feeds it.
561   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 5:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
What do you THINK BLM is in support of? Their own website talks of the Marxist revolution they are planning. All of the useful idiots currently supporting them on the street will be rewarded with a bullet to the head or a Zyklon B shower.


This is no exaggeration.

Genocides run in this sequence:

- dehumanization (done, white people are the devil according to academia and the media)
- firings from jobs (done, James Damore was just one of many thousands)
- legalized discrimination (in progress, CA bill to allow overt discrimination by race)
- expropriation of assets (in progress, CA bill to forcibly take money from white people and give it to black people under the name of "reparations" for dead people no one is even related to around here)
- mass murder (coming soon! white people are only 36% of California and falling fast)

The only happy thought is that the stupid white liberals who supported this incipient genocide will also die.
562   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 5:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
BLM doesn’t believe what you want them to believe Marcus. It’s funny that you have to create an alternate belief structure for them in order to justify your continued support.

But you don’t need to take my word for it. You can get it straight from the horses mouth. No doubt at all that BLM wants the authoritarian government:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/


The authoritarians are ALL on the left.

NONE are on the right.

You can debate with people on the right.

The left demands that you submit and/or die.
563   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 6:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
I have a number of disagreements with many of the posters, in particular Wookie Man and 10 lb bass but they pale in importance to the garbage and gaslighting being spewed by the left.

What did I do ;)

I've disagreed with every single user here, including Patrick at one point or another. There's been a handful of times I legit get pissy and probably cross the line. I'd never make an attempt to shut someone else down besides getting a bit personal with I think 2-3 users in the past that pushed the right buttons. I'll just keep pointing out flaws and say they're wrong. Then step away from the computer and eat some good food, go for a swim, mow the lawn, etc. and move on with my day.

One of the biggest issues I have is when I know of personal information from a source I don't want to dox and someone says it's a lie. There's no motivation for me to lie. I just wouldn't post on the topic. Plain and simple. I'm going to tell you that you're wrong and I have legitimate information. Just because I'm not willing to risk peoples jobs and personal information on this site, doesn't make some of my comments untrue.
564   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 13, 6:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FWIW I don’t really think you should sensor or moderate left leaning points of view or really any points of view that are within the rules of your site.

However I do believe we should relentlessly ridicule those who continuously cite opinion pieces with little intelligent commentary to accompany it. It’s not every posters job to break down bullshit written by full time paid writers. Posters ought not be so lazy.

And it also doesn’t mean I don’t think poorly of left leaning posters who take ludicrous positions in defense of Democrat politicians.
565   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2020 Jul 13, 6:36pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
One of the biggest issues I have is when I know of personal information from a source I don't want to dox and someone says it's a lie. There's no motivation for me to lie. I just wouldn't post on the topic. Plain and simple. I'm going to tell you that you're wrong and I have legitimate information. Just because I'm not willing to risk peoples jobs and personal information on this site, doesn't make some of my comments untrue.


Wait until I retire and move out of state. My personal experience will blow some minds :)

I use rea life examples sometimes but there’s others where I wanna scream bullshit and sit the poster down like a little child and tell them how horribly wrong they are.

7-10 years.
566   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 6:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says
Wait until I retire and move out of state. My personal experience will blow some minds :)

I use rea life examples sometimes but there’s others where I wanna scream bullshit and sit the poster down like a little child and tell them how horribly wrong they are.

7-10 years.

I'll never do it. There are sick people out there that will hunt down your children or family. I'm just resigned to the fate that some discussions will just hit a wall and no one will believe me. I'm okay with that at the end of the day. It's an internet forum after all, which is why I sometime disappoint myself with my own reactions here sometimes. I know I beat this horse dead here, but if our Patnet personas were unknown, we'd likely all have a beer together and not even know.
567   just_adhom_preaching   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 6:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yeah, I'm okay with most Leftie posts here too. Not so much the intermittent trolls though. If they annoy me too much there is the ignore button. Not having to see goat buttholes is a good thing too.

However, those aren't the intolerant murderous left.
568   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 6:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
The authoritarians are ALL on the left.

Of course they are, by definition. The left believes in collectivism, elimination of private property, and the primacy of the state over family and religion. Unless your a sheep you will revolt. If you do revolt you will be eliminated.

The right believes in liberty, personal rights, and personal responsibility. If you want to go create your own little commune, go for it.

Has socialism ever made a society better?
569   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 7:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
The left believes in collectivism, elimination of private property, and the primacy of the state over family and religion. Unless your a sheep you will revolt. If you do revolt you will be eliminated.


Yes, they definitely want to eliminate traditional hetero families. From the BLM website:

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
570   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Jul 13, 8:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

Sounds reasonable to me. If someone wants to be queer, tranny, or whatever, I have no problem with that. If they insist on making me accept them as mainstream or try to indoctrinate my kids, then we have a problem.
571   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 8:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
Patrick says
the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

Sounds reasonable to me. If someone wants to be queer, tranny, or whatever, I have no problem with that. If they insist on making me accept them as mainstream or try to indoctrinate my kids, then we have a problem.

And that's where the breakdown occurs. The indoctrination of it all. That it's normal. I have weird fetishes and things I like to do. I'd never expect anyone else to do them or accept them. It's my deal. Me being me. It what makes me unique.

This idea that being gay or trans should be celebrated and accepted by everyone is bull shit. You do you and I'll do me. I have plenty of conversations and the last thing on my mind is if you're gay. So don't tell me your gay or blatantly show your gayness. Do that in your own place just like I do my own things in private.

The other layer is that all these people are not the same either. My wife works with two men that became women. They're now lesbians together. No joke. Both engineers, smart people. Everyone knows, but they don't push their lifestyle at all. Never. They just want to feel normal and for them, switching genders was it. Cool. I don't care. When you announce that you used to be a man every time you enter a room or expect different treatment, go fuck yourself. These two "ladies" do it right and aren't seeking attention.
572   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 8:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
And that's where the breakdown occurs. The indoctrination of it all. That it's normal.


I agree. The indoctrination is the truly evil part, especially because they target children and ruin their lives.
573   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 8:34pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
WookieMan says
And that's where the breakdown occurs. The indoctrination of it all. That it's normal.


I agree. The indoctrination is the truly evil part, especially because they target children and ruin their lives.

The apartments I've been in, in Chicago with these kids that look like deer in headlights. It's honestly sad as can be. I've had multiple incidences where I've had to call police it was so bad.

It's education to an extent, but mostly pure laziness and not having a family structure. No dad. Mom is high as a kite and fucking some gangbanger with 5 kids in the other room while she didn't get them off to school. They get government child support when these guys ultimately go to prison. The incentive from their own culture and then the government is for black men to go to jail. That's literally their job to provide for the kids. Get busted so baby mama can get a check and they can stop by once they're out and bang her. This is black life. This is what matters to them.
574   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 8:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
They get government child support when these guys ultimately go to prison. The incentive from their own culture and then the government is for black men to go to jail. That's literally their job to provide for the kids. Get busted so baby mama can get a check


Never considered that part of it. An actual financial incentive to go to jail.
575   Brd6   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 8:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
white people are only 36% of California and falling fast

Hispanics are white or not? They hate a certain non-white race much more than anyone else
576   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 13, 9:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Never considered that part of it. An actual financial incentive to go to jail.

My SIL law destroyed baby daddy's ankle bracelet as he was gaming the system and left the apartment with ankle bracelet attached to charger. She did it to get a check. This shit is real. The men don't care and the women will put their asses in jail to get checks if they can. Pure toxicity and most people have zero clue.

Edit: She did this to get a child support check. Fathers on the birth certificate, when imprisoned, the government will pay the mother for child support. Wanted to clear that up.
577   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 13, 9:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Brd6 says
Hispanics are white or not? They hate a certain non-white race much more than anyone else


Hispanics are interesting. Mostly Spanish on the paternal side, and mostly American Indian on the maternal side. Y chromosome and mitochondrial studies showed this. Half white, you might say.

One theory is that this happened because the native women had more surviving children with Spanish men, both because the Spanish men had better immunity to smallpox and other kinds of diseases, and because they simply had more power and money to protect her children.
578   marcus   ignore (11)   2020 Jul 14, 12:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

A parting gift.



Not that any of you would watch it. It's 2 hours long. These people are all very thoughtful and reasonable, and concerned about the very real problems presented by so called anti-racists.

@ Patrick. My hatred of Trump was never incitement of violence, and I know that you know that, and hopefully you are at least a little ashamed of yourself. Hahaha. As if. Hey, when in rome, do as the romans do, amiright ?

In any case, back at you Patrick.
579   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 14, 3:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Not that any of you would watch it.

"Remarkable intellectuals" in the first 30 seconds.

"Don't feel comfortable asserting my own race" Huh?

He's white, they're black. Who cares? This is 2:30 into it. Not saying don't watch it, but regardless of what they end up talking about, these types are the problem. If you think what they're saying in the presence of a white man, on a video that will be public is what they say in a classroom or private it explains a lot.

I may finish it up later, but the "intellectuals" already sound like idiots by the 6:30 mark. Seemed like it was going to be a contest to see who could use the biggest and never used words to "prove" intellectual superiority. That's academia for you. Not actually about doing anything, just talking in circles.
580   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 14, 8:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
hatred of Trump was never incitement of violence


I disagree.

Hate is hate.

Hate incites violence.

Hate for Trump is just a proxy for racial hatred for all white people, dividing the country. You can disagree, dislike him personally, want different policies, but hate? No, it's wrong.
581   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 14, 8:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
That's academia for you. Not actually about doing anything, just talking in circles.


I was a liberal arts major at first and it was very depressing how no one would agree on anything, all constantly trying to stomp each other because of ego, and no one with any clear job path.

Then I switched to engineering and it was incredible. If you didn't agree, one of you would be proven wrong, using math, or a compiler. And everyone in engineering knew they were going to get a job at a good salary, and they did.
582   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 14, 8:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
I was a liberal arts major at first and it was very depressing how no one would agree on anything, all constantly trying to stomp each other because of ego, and no one with any clear job path.

It's because it's all words. I was history major which you'd think would be benign with little disagreement. I can't remember the specific example but literally had overlapping courses with regards to timeline in history and each professor presented a completely different version. This was American history.

Political Science minor and boy was that a shit show. As I've mentioned in the past, LGBT on campus office was in that wing of the building. Fancy that.

I've got two boys and I'm probably going to push them to go the trades route with come CC courses on business. Or a STEM field. They'd have a leg up with engineering due to my wife's work. I just don't want them going near the bull shit minimum requirements/courses at a university that do nothing towards getting an engineering degree. Basically the indoctrination courses.
583   TrumpingTits   ignore (4)   2020 Jul 15, 12:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
hatred of Trump was never incitement of violence,


No. Just whenever Trump says or does anything it is declared that that IS incitement for violence.

Problem with bullshit hypocrisy is that eventually it comes back to bite hypocrite bullshitters in the ass.
584   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 15, 4:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
I've got two boys and I'm probably going to push them to go the trades route with come CC courses on business. Or a STEM field. They'd have a leg up with engineering due to my wife's work. I just don't want them going near the bull shit minimum requirements/courses at a university that do nothing towards getting an engineering degree. Basically the indoctrination courses.



Finally got my wife to get on board with the trades first. Something like Rin's plan: GED at 16, Trade for a year or two, then college later.

Zen & Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: Learn to love fixing the motor, then think about physics or mechanical engineering.
585   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jul 15, 5:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

NoCoupForYou says
Rin's plan: GED at 16, Trade for a year or two, then college later.


This should be standard, unless you're totally on fire for some specific degree.

Most students just kinda fuck around in college, wasting time and money until they hit on something they like. I was like that until I got into programming. Even then, the degree was not all that important. Lots of programmers don't have a degree these days.

And the last year or two of high school is also a waste unless you're really into it.

Finally, it's super-useful for everyone to have a basic trade they can fall back on. Construction, plumbing, electric, whatever.
586   NoCoupForYou   ignore (2)   2020 Jul 15, 6:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Finally, it's super-useful for everyone to have a basic trade they can fall back on. Construction, plumbing, electric, whatever.




Exactly. Even if your destination is college, why not pick up a trade first, esp. if you're going the low/no debt route.

Great job that nobody thinks about: Locksmith. Always in demand, stupid easy to set up a business (you don't need a storefront or even a place of business to do lockouts, you can run it from your van or truck). How many older guys with kids wish they had a dependable young dude willing to work nights M-Th/F and be on call? Entrance requirements are minimal, it's mostly learn on the job. In FL there are no statewide requirements, and in Miami-Dade which is usually the toughest for requirements, it's having $25k general biz insurance, no felony convictions in the past 5-10 years, and one year's experience. Other counties are less.
587   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2020 Jul 15, 6:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

NoCoupForYou says
Zen & Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: Learn to love fixing the motor, then think about physics or mechanical engineering

That's the thing. I'd try to get them to find a niche trade. You brought up motorcycle engines and maintenance. Get your basic learning done, but jump into one type. Aircraft for example. Since most flight schools have Cessna's 152/172 or whatever model, learn that engine. Learn the plane and you could probably get a job in a ton of places given they're also popular to own. Factor in annuals, overhauls and maintenance and airplane mechanics will always be in need for that specific type.
588   Rin   ignore (8)   2020 Jul 15, 7:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

NoCoupForYou says
Something like Rin's plan: GED at 16, Trade for a year or two, then college later.


Sounds like Rin Wah is in effect ... Law!

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