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Wtf is wrong with Americans ?

By marcus follow marcus   2014 Nov 12, 11:57am 22,404 views   65 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


You would think a political campaign could actually be won with this kind of talk.

http://www.tickld.com/x/wtf-is-wrong-is-wrong-with-americans-this-guy-nails-it

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26   NDrLoR   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 1:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Blurtman says

Comparing Nordic countries to the USA is an inapt comparison.

Plus there's 25 million of them, all probably no more than three or four degrees of being related to each other resulting in tremendous social trust as opposed to 300 plus million of us from every tribe that ever existed with half trying to figure out how to game the system.

27   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 1:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Blurtman says

dublin hillz says



Blurtman says



People vote primarily to improve the lot of their own kind


That is the most puzzling phenomenon of all. In a capitalist society this tribal instinct should be extremely muted if not outright submerged, yet in politics we find that it manifests itself time and time again.


What's capitalism got to do with it? People are people.

Because in capitalism, in princple, it's supposed to be every man or every family for itself. Thus, even people of the same skin color/culture are potential competitors for resources to be secured/obtained. Ironically, in western europe which has a more collectivist ethic vs U.S., people are much more likely to vote in their class interest as opposed to here where people routinely vote against their economic self interest due to unresolved racial tensions.

28   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 3:07am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

I'm not really talking about Class Conflict here, but rather Identity Conflict. That "Davos Man" and the international MBA crowd see themselves as "above" petty national concerns and as Internationalists. They consider anything for the benefit of the Citizens of a Country to be base and ignorant, no matter how tepid or minor - except, of course, when motivating those citizens to support a "Police Action" somewhere. Oh, and anything that is no cost to them, like pro/anti- Gay Rights and Abortion. Those are to be used as levers to distract the populace with eternal Theological/Philosophical debates while pursuing Neoliberal goals.

I disagree with the article, but I'm gonna skip it for now because it's slightly different than what I'm about with Identity.

29   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2014 Nov 13, 3:08am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Turks = Mexicans.

30   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 3:11am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Blurtman says

I've told Dem friends of mine that the party has got to drop its support of affirmative action. The movers and shakers in the Dem party are not adversely affected and many are positively affected by affirmative action. Poor and lower working class whites are adversely affected.

Another case of iberals having someone else pay to get their rocks off.

Exactly. And it'll be worse now that out/in-sourcing is attacking STEM careers, where STEM people probably somewhat lean democratic to begin with.

Poor Blacks AND Whites (and Native Americans) are absolutely slammed by immigration, since it keeps wages at the bottom jobs low while creating more competition for them.

31   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 3:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

That "Davos Man" and the international MBA crowd see themselves as "above" petty
national concerns and as Internationalists

"National sovereignty" has been used by despots to justify crimes against humanity against their own people while they enjoy all spoils that absolute power brings.

32   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 4:03am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

I'm not really talking about Class Conflict here, but rather Identity Conflict. That "Davos Man" and the international MBA crowd see themselves as "above" petty national concerns and as Internationalists.

I don't see any difference. You are dimissing, without cosidering a profound point. Which I don't, think you philisophically disagree with.

33   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 4:05am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

dublin hillz says

"National sovereignty" has been used by despots to justify crimes against humanity against their own people while they enjoy all spoils that absolute power brings.

Yes. But the point here is that Davos Men/International MBAs don't care about crimes against humanity, so long as the bottom line is fine - even against their own people.

Trade has also been used by criminals, like the Opium War. Or the entire conquest of India.

For example, our unparalleled World #1 incarceration rate to fuel private prisons, while allied with a country that lashes rape victims, while demonizing another for putting a few national monument vandals in jail for a few months.

34   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 4:07am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

I don't see any difference. You are dimissing, without cosidering a profound point. Which I don't, think you philisophically disagree with.

I'm not dismissing - I'm not interested in exploring class issues at this point in the thread (I will in another thread if you want later) - though that certainly has something to do with it. I'm more interested in other aspects of identity like ethnicity and citizenship for Sam Huntington's point about a Clash of Civs and International Men.

35   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 4:13am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

I'm not dismissing - I'm not interested in exploring class issues

The article in not about class issues!

36   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 4:21am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

The article in not about class issues!

It's the fundamental point of the article:

We thus arrive at a universal, praxeological truth about war. War is the outcome of class conflict inherent in the political relationship — the relationship between ruler and ruled, parasite and producer, tax-consumer and taxpayer.

I'm happy to refute it - later - but right now I am interested in exploring how the "International Men" or "Neoliberals" consider themselves "Citizens of the World" and don't care about their own populations' well being and pursue strategies directly detrimental to them.

37   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 4:49am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

We thus arrive at a universal, praxeological truth about war. War is the outcome of class conflict inherent in the political relationship — the relationship between ruler and ruled, parasite and producer, tax-consumer and taxpayer.

It is about the creation of the class conflict, not the conflict itself.

38   humanity   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 5:28am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

Don't disagree but the current education system is FUBAR and getting worse.

At least that's what the propagandists tell you.

What's happening is the underclass is growing, and our public schools don't work well for these groups, because they are geographically together, and going to schools comprised almost entirely of kids from poor homes, often highly dysfunctional poor homes does not work.

For middle class and upper middle class, our public schools are as good or probably better than they were 30 or 50 years ago.

39   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 5:34am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

humanity says

What's happening is the underclass is growing, and our public schools don't work well for these groups, because they are geographically together, and going to schools comprised almost entirely of kids from poor homes, often highly dysfunctional poor homes does not work.

For middle class and upper middle class, our public schools are as good or probably better than they were 30 or 50 years ago.

Good point, OTOH what about the Fed uniform testing?

40   humanity   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 6:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Not a big fan of NCLB ,or standardized testing in general, usually done by the state, but those have always been there. For the good schools, the problem with these tests is mostly the wasted time and money, both of which could have been better spent.

But it's a complex issue. Some on the right want to privatize, or move towards merit pay or other government imposed reforms. All of these require testing to give us the data on which decisions can be based. Testing is the way the schools performance is measured and compared to other schools.

Meanwhile the people in the testing business are laughing their way to the bank.

41   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 6:34am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

bgamall4 says

You are either a troll or you are a sick puppy.

Don't sell him short, he is both

42   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2014 Nov 13, 6:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Again, look to the West. California is shrinking their prison population after last weeks elections:
A new era in California criminal justice dawned this week, as hundreds of inmates walked out of county jails and more than 4,000 held in state prison readied for possible release with reduced sentences for theft or drug crimes, following voter approval of Proposition 47.

43   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 7:04am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says

Again, look to the West. California is shrinking their prison population after last weeks elections:
A new era in California criminal justice dawned this week, as hundreds of inmates walked out of county jails and more than 4,000 held in state prison readied for possible release with reduced sentences for theft or drug crimes, following voter approval of Proposition 47.

It's unfortunate that this passed - "Crimes reduced from felonies to misdemeanors under Proposition 47 include drug possession and certain nonviolent offenses when less than $950 is involved, such as theft, possession of stolen goods, forgery, shoplifting, and check and credit fraud." I am referring specifically to the "$950 is involved, such as theft, possession of stolen goods, forgery, shoplifting, and check and credit fraud" part. I can guarantee you that this is only going to embolden the criminals who will view this legal change as a sign of weakness and impatience to deal with the problem. I believe previously anything over $500 could have been considered grand theft. Now anything under $950 is a misdemeanor. How is that better exactly?

44   Philistine   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 7:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says

Again, look to the West. California is shrinking their prison population after last weeks elections:

A new era in California criminal justice dawned this week, as hundreds of inmates walked out of county jails and more than 4,000 held in state prison readied for possible release with reduced sentences for theft or drug crimes, following voter approval of Proposition 47.

Great! More unemployable bums that will go on the dole in CA.

45   EBGuy   ignore (1)   2014 Nov 13, 8:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dhz asked: How is that better exactly?
One of the theories is that you get folks into drug treatment instead of sending them to prison where they get trained as hardened criminals (crazy, I know). It also means (hopefully) better reporting of crimes. In the past, if a juvenile was caught stealing a smartphone, authorities might not report it as it could mean felony charges. Now, it will get reported and the individual can receive a targeted intervention.
@Philistine, unemployable bums are cheaper than prisoners.

46   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 13, 9:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dublin hillz says

How is that better exactly?

California spends about $40-50k a year per prisoner.

Much cheaper to keep somebody on assistance or even send them to most private colleges, than to keep them in prison.

And as EBGuy said, prisons are a great recruiting and training ground for Bloods, Crips, and various Biker Bands.

47   Bigsby   ignore (10)   2014 Nov 13, 9:39am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bgamall4 says

sbh says

The more prisons the greater the purity of our national identity.

You are either a troll or you are a sick puppy. You are a Zionist infiltrator.

You actually took what he said literally, didn't you? Amazing.

48   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 13, 9:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bgamall4 says

One way to solve that problem.....Give them green cards. Problem solved.

Zionist position to the tee. You are a corrupt anti Patriot.

I agree with the corrupt part. :)

bgamall4 says

sbh says

The more prisons the greater the purity of our national identity.

You are either a troll or you are a sick puppy. You are a Zionist infiltrator.

Dammit SBH, now everyone knows.

bgamall4 says

Wake up people. God hates empire and to conspire for empire is certain eternal damnation.

Us Zionists don't mind.

49   Bigsby   ignore (10)   2014 Nov 13, 10:24am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

bgamall4 says

National sovereignty is the plan of God for this age. Think about it, the Tower of Babel was an affront to God, who mixed up language and set apart peoples. And now, the Tower of Basel wants to rule all people financially. This is empire. Niall Ferguson has said that America is an empire and needs to make war like one, for Israel of course.

Wake up people. God hates empire and to conspire for empire is certain eternal damnation.

You should take a holiday, Gary. You're unravelling.

50   New Renter   ignore (11)   2014 Nov 13, 10:34am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

P N Dr Lo R says

Blurtman says

Comparing Nordic countries to the USA is an inapt comparison.

Plus there's 25 million of them, all probably no more than three or four degrees of being related to each other resulting in tremendous social trust as opposed to 300 plus million of us from every tribe that ever existed with half trying to figure out how to game the system.

As opposed to the rest of northern Europe, say Germany where just a few decades ago they were trying to convince the world of their genetic superiority and running rampant over their neighbors.

But its different now.

51   MM1   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 13, 10:54am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

http://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2014/11/11/china-us-introduce-new-10-year-visas-business-and-tourism

Read above. It is President Obama's further dismantling of middle class jobs by use of H1-B visa type programs.

52   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 Nov 13, 11:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Bigsby says

bgamall4 says

sbh says

The more prisons the greater the purity of our national identity.

You are either a troll or you are a sick puppy. You are a Zionist infiltrator.

You actually took what he said literally, didn't you? Amazing.

It's not surprising at all. Schizophrenics take everything literally. They are totally incapable of abstract thinking.

53   Bigsby   ignore (10)   2014 Nov 13, 11:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

It's not surprising at all. Schizophrenics take everything literally. They are totally incapable of abstract thinking.

I suspect you're right. His posting history appears to be getting more and more deluded as time goes by. Certainly his zionism/conspiracy fixations seem to have taken on a life of their own over the last year or two.

54   jazz_music   ignore (15)   2014 Nov 13, 2:44pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

STEM people probably somewhat lean democratic to begin with.

My experience has been the opposite, engineers and scientists represent a huge majority fiercely loyal to their big corporations who many times will hold all hands meetings during elections to influence their employees verbally to vote for Republicans. They never fail to make the connection between their continued jobs and the success of the Republican party.

Also they read employee newsletters every day which highlights the glorious accomplishments of their huge corporation and their government customer, it all helps to build the neocon worldview.

55   Bigsby   ignore (10)   2014 Nov 13, 8:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bgamall4 says

I write satire and I know some can't tell, although in fairness, I put a disclaimer at the bottom of my articles.

You should put an apology.

56   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 14, 12:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says

You're wrong - why not address gsr's post instead and the numbers in there which speak for themselves.

Sure. The US spends about the same on military as the rest of the world combined. I'm all for cutting it.

57   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 14, 7:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Indigenous' Article:
http://mises.org/daily/6959/War-Making-and-Class-Conflict

All governments past and present, regardless of their formal organization, involve the rule of the many by the few.

Okay, sure. Hard to have a vote as to whether the firefighters are dispatched to a burning house each time a house catches on fire.

In other words, all governments are fundamentally oligarchic.


But Private Owners submit every decision they make for public approval first.

But, Seriously. This is like an anti-gun argument that "all guns are evil." Guns are used to commit robberies, guns are used to prevent robberies, guns are used to kidnap people, guns are used to liberate people.

So it is with government.

The reasons are twofold. First, governments are nonproductive organizations and can only subsist by extracting goods and services from the productive class in their territorial domain.


Is your public water authority "unproductive"? How about your fire department? Does it actually produce anything? What about enforcement of contracts? What does the enforcement of contracts actually physically produce? Gallons of Beer? Pet Rocks?

Thus the ruling class must remain a minority of the population if they are to continually extract resources from their subjects or citizens.


Like the Koch Brothers? The various companies now pumping Fox News full of horror stories about kids' lunches (notice they never show the offerings on the lunch line, only the plate that some finicky and probably obese kid who is used to normally eating pizza and fries and cookies has on it)

Genuine "majority rule" on a permanent basis is impossible because it would result in an economic collapse as the tribute or taxes expropriated by the more numerous rulers deprived the minority engaged in peaceful productive activities of the resources needed to sustain and reproduce itself.


For example, in past ages - including for most of Britain's Parliamentary history - wealthy landowners voted taxes on the poor, and only they voted.

This was what was originally meant when that guy said "Vote themselves largess from the public till." He wasn't talking about sans-coullettes, but bourgeois armorers, tax farmers, contractors, etc. - you had to have land and/or money to vote back then. Joe Six Pack could not vote.

But this is definitely not the point the author would like to make.

Majority rule would therefore eventually bring about a violent conflict between factions of the previous ruling class, which would terminate with one group establishing oligarchic rule and economically exploiting its former confederates.

Which we've totally seen in the UK, Sweden, Canada, etc. etc. I mean, ever since the vote was universal in the early 20th Century, these societies have been racked by constant revolution and violence.

The second factor that renders oligarchic rule practically inevitable is related to the law of comparative advantage. The tendency toward division of labor and specialization based on the unequal endowment of skills pervades all sectors of human endeavor. Just as a small segment of the population is adept at playing professional football or dispensing financial advice, so a tiny fraction of the population tends to excel at wielding coercive power.

By coercive power, the author means majoritarian governments requiring life insurance companies to actually pay out.

Malcolm X's father was tied to a railroad track by the Local Decency Brigade. The Insurance Company declared it a suicide.

The inherently nonproductive and oligarchic nature of government thus ensures that all nations under political rule are divided into two classes: a productive class and a parasitic class or, in the apt terminology of the American Slave-owning Traitor [and] political theorist John C. Calhoun, "taxpayers" and "tax-consumers."

Who was the "States Rights" author of the "Fugitive Slave Act", that enforced Southern Slave Laws in Northern States - the very opposite of States Rights.

Calhoun was a "Cast-Iron" opponent of Abolition.

John C. Calhoun's most Famous Speech was Titled: Slavery Is a Positive Good
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Slavery_a_Positive_Good

The author does not want you, his dear reader, to associate John C. Calhoun, with his "productive class" of "minority" slaveholders, but rather the abolitionists of the Lincoln Administration (and his popular vote majority) with a "nonproductive class".

The king and his court, elected politicians and their bureaucratic and special-interest allies, the dictator and his party apparatchiks — these are historically the tax-consumers and, not coincidentally, the war makers. War has a number of advantages for the ruling class. First and foremost, war against a foreign enemy obscures the class conflict that is going on domestically in which the minority ruling class coercively siphons off the resources and lowers the living standards of the majority of the population, who produce and pay taxes. Convinced that their lives and property are being secured against a foreign threat, the exploited taxpayers develop a "false consciousness" of political and economic solidarity with their domestic rulers.

See the petty landholders and whip cracker white poor of the South for "false consciousness". And guess who made up the bulk of the Confederate Army and paid a disproportionate share of taxes? Not the plantation owners!

A second advantage of war is that it provides the ruling class with an extraordinary opportunity to intensify its economic exploitation of the domestic producers through emergency war taxes, monetary inflation, conscripted labor, and the like.


The Dixie Nation was the first to draft via conscription.

We thus arrive at a universal, praxeological truth about war.

Oh, Prax, FFS. It certainly isn't going to be the wealthy private interests encourage it, that would make do much damn sense...

War is the outcome of class conflict inherent in the political relationship — the relationship between ruler and ruled, parasite and producer, tax-consumer and taxpayer. The parasitic class makes war with purpose and deliberation in order to conceal and ratchet up their exploitation of the much larger productive class


*whew* Oh, wait a minute...

Thus, a permanent state of war or preparedness for war is optimal from the point of view of the ruling elite, especially one that controls a large and powerful state. Take the current US government as an example. It rules over a relatively populous, wealthy, and progressive economy from which it can extract ever larger boodles of loot without destroying the productive class. Nevertheless, it is subject to the real and abiding fear that sooner or later productive Americans will come to recognize the continually increasing burden of taxation, inflation, and regulation for what it really is — naked exploitation. So the US government, the most powerful mega-state in history, is driven by the very logic of the political relationship to pursue a policy of permanent war.

That's right folks, it's your faceless "Government Employee" that pushes all these things. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain: The billions of dollars thrown into Think Tanks, Propaganda, and Political Donations by 1%ers has nothing to do with it. It's all Marge Simpson's sisters in the DMV parasiting off everybody else while lobbying to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

58   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 14, 7:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PS Oligarchs don't come from strong government, they come from weak ones.

To crush the Cultural Revolution, the Chinese Communist Party made a deal with the PLA. The PLA got control of the SEOs and made a fortune. Post-Cold War Russia was in chaos; mafiosos who smuggled under Glasnost and had ready hard currency got "nonproductive" Soviet-era, Government built oil rigs and coal mines for a song and a dance. John D. Rockefeller and JP Morgan flourished under Laissez-Faire policies.

Whenever the class of wealthy people (esp. Landowners) get too uppity, and the government gets too weak, chaos, war, and Oligarchy ensues.

I won't even get into the myth of the "Peaceful South" which before the war plotted to get the US involved in every kind of war, from an invasion of Cuba to the Mexican War - anywhere "tropical" enough, that indigo, cotton, and tobacco could be farmed - by slaves. To say nothing of the Border Ruffians or Bleeding Kansas, which was caused by Missouri and Arkansas Plantation Owner-funded* bandits crossing the border to terrorize free farmers to stop the state of Kansas from becoming Free.

* AKA "poor, productive minority" in the above Austrian spiel. It's NOT an accident that Confederate Types and others love and work with the Von Mises Institute.

59   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 14, 1:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Is your public water authority "unproductive"? How about your fire department? Does it actually produce anything? What about enforcement of contracts? What does the enforcement of contracts actually physically produce? Gallons of Beer? Pet Rocks?

My objection to this is that there is no price discovery for their services.

thunderlips11 says

By coercive power, the author means majoritarian governments requiring life insurance companies to actually pay out.

Either one, through cronyism or being elected, either way it is beyond what price discovery would pay them.

thunderlips11 says

but rather the abolitionists of the Lincoln Administration

Lincoln was not an abolitionist any more than Calhoun was.

thunderlips11 says

See the petty landholders and whip cracker white poor of the South for "false consciousness". And guess who made up the bulk of the Confederate Army and paid a disproportionate share of taxes? Not the plantation owners!

Your conjecture is out of place as you are bringing up anachronistic points. What created the conflict in the first place was a raising of the tariffs on the South.

thunderlips11 says

Oh, Prax, FFS. It certainly isn't going to be the wealthy private interests encourage it, that would make do much damn sense...

Almost all of the wars in the past 100 yr have come from Democrat presidents. You bet the government and the cronies start the wars for the benefit of keeping them in power.

60   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 14, 2:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

PS Oligarchs don't come from strong government, they come from weak ones.

Your rambling post does not demonstrate this. The leaders of the south exploited their own people as well, that is not the point of the article.

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