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Why the Left Is So Afraid of Jordan Peterson

By Patrick following x   2018 Aug 11, 10:43am 1,156 views   24 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-the-left-is-so-afraid-of-jordan-peterson/567110/

But there is no coherent reason for the left’s obliterating and irrational hatred of Jordan Peterson. What, then, accounts for it?

It is because the left, while it currently seems ascendant in our houses of culture and art, has in fact entered its decadent late phase, and it is deeply vulnerable. The left is afraid not of Peterson, but of the ideas he promotes, which are completely inconsistent with identity politics of any kind. When the poetry editors of The Nation virtuously publish an amateurish but super-woke poem, only to discover that the poem stumbled across several trip wires of political correctness; when these editors (one of them a full professor in the Harvard English department) then jointly write a letter oozing bathos and career anxiety and begging forgiveness from their critics; when the poet himself publishes a statement of his own—a missive falling somewhere between an apology, a Hail Mary pass, and a suicide note; and when all of this is accepted in the houses of the holy as one of the regrettable but minor incidents that take place along the path toward greater justice, something is dying.

When the top man at The New York Times publishes a sober statement about a meeting he had with the president in which he describes instructing Trump about the problem of his “deeply troubling anti-press rhetoric,” and then three days later the paper announces that it has hired a writer who has tweeted about her hatred of white people, of Republicans, of cops, of the president, of the need to stop certain female writers and journalists from “existing,” and when this new hire will not be a beat reporter, but will sit on the paper’s editorial board—having a hand in shaping the opinions the paper presents to the world—then it is no mystery that a parallel culture of ideas has emerged to replace a corrupted system. When even Barack Obama, the poet laureate of identity politics, is moved to issue a message to the faithful, hinting that that they could be tipping their hand on all of this—saying during a speech he delivered in South Africa that a culture is at a dead end when it decides someone has no “standing to speak” if he is a white man—and when even this mayday is ignored, the doomsday clock ticks ever closer to the end.
1   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 11, 10:51am   ↑ like (8)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There are no Jordan Petersons, Ben Shapiros, or even Charlie Kirks on the left. There isn’t a single left wing commentator that would be willing to have a fair televised debate on any of the lefts issues because anytime it’s happened, the leftist gets embarassed and destroyed (e.g - Sally Kohn vs Shapiro).

The left is losing because their ideas don’t stand up to fact based debate. Race cards, and ad Homs are not a replacement for logic and facts. Identity politics has been stretched so thin that it’s losing its effect. Once it’s gone, the left will have nothing left in its arsenal.
2   Rin   ignore (3)   2018 Aug 11, 11:07am   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Once it’s gone, the left will have nothing left in its arsenal.


The left should live in a VR holodeck, with each other, and generate KKK 'bots which they can then fight against, for the rest of their natural lives.

The rest of us have jobs and a life to live.
3   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 11, 11:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

When the liberal leaders are eaten alive in a scrim of cannibal anarchy amidst their free shit third world followers, and the eaters die of indigestion, the Natural Order will be restored and the Founding Fathers will smile.
4   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Aug 11, 11:25am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
The left is losing because their ideas don’t stand up to fact based debate. Race cards, and ad Homs are not a replacement for logic and facts. Identity politics has been stretched so thin that it’s losing its effect.


Which is why they have to resort to coordinated EDITORIAL attacks and OPINION pieces..... The facts don't support their B.S.

http://patrick.net/post/1318100/2018-08-10-boston-globe-calls-for-war-of-words-against-trump-media-attacks

Last chance to get the brain dead, koolaid drinking Lefties on board.
5   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 11, 11:42am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Once it’s gone, the left will have nothing left in its arsenal.


The left should live in a VR holodeck, with each other, and generate KKK 'bots which they can then fight against, for the rest of their natural lives.

The rest of us have jobs and a life to live.


With a small qualifier - today's left. Left of yesteryear actually was for well-being and rights of poor people and workers. Left of today is about virtue signalling, hundred and fifty genders, safe spaces, protection of gazillionare tech and media owners, anti-white racism, anti-male sexism, and so on.
6   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 12:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
Race cards, and ad Homs are not a replacement for logic and facts


I've felt the same way about right wingers on this forum for years. Emotion is frequently a substitute for reasoned argument with right wingers. Look aback at political arguments that included say Iwgog, Bellingham Bill, JazzMusic and others, I don't recall seeing them taking th low ground ever (or hardly ever).

The truth is the far left and the far right are both guilty of that kind of thing, more so the right until about 2014, when identity politics (infinite genders, micro-aggressions etc) went a little cuckoo and out of control, but it's still a small fraction of democrats. I'd say they are smaller than the IDENTITY POLITICS right side (ie the anti-immigration and or anti muslim and or white nationalist and or otherwise racist side of the right).

Goran_K says
There are no Jordan Petersons, Ben Shapiros, or even Charlie Kirks on the left


IT's true that the identity politics obsessed far left has a problem with Jordan Peterson,. but that problem is that too many of their own (myself for example), like his message, and reject identity politics. IF you think that means they are changing their mind about fairly taxing high and corporate incomes, or health care policy and so on, you are mistaken.

Identity politics on both sides is a distraction from real issues.

The left has Noam CHomsky or the more moderate Brett and Eric Wienstein, or Sam Harris. Moderate democrats are happy to listen to civil conversation that Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, or Dave Rubin is a part of.

The truth is that labels left and right, "conservative" and "liberal" and even "progressive" have totally lost their meaning, compared to decades ago. IF you listen to Joe Rogan, much of the time you wouldn't know if you are listening to someone that usually votes democrat or republican.

You only wish you could claim Jordan Peterson for the right.
7   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 12:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Perhaps in the same way that the right changed, becoming the party of Trump, the left is changing to become more reasonable.

The true cores of the groups are revealing themselves.

It's evolving.I think the truth is, it's getting really tough to fit all the most important issues of 2018 America in to our two corrupt and obsolete parties.
8   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Aug 11, 12:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Look aback at political arguments that included say Iwgog, Bellingham Bill, JazzMusic and others, I don't recall seeing them taking th low ground ever (or hardly ever).


Wow.... just wow.....

9   HEYYOU   ignore (21)   2018 Aug 11, 12:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"there is no coherent reason for the" Right's stupidity. Yes there is. They must be born stupid.

The Right has a lot to proud of.
They elected a lying,5 time draft dodging,multiple wife cheater,Traitor.
They killed 4801 American servicemen based on a LIE.
The Right has done nothing to hold their murderers responsible.
These are the same people that steal my money & call it taxes. Fuck you tax raising motherfuckers.
Yes! I think I called them MOTHERFUCKERS. They fucked 7,000,000 with tax increases why not fuck their mother.Have any of you Right wing slime called for a forensic accounting of every penny of taxes paid?
No one on the Right has paid enough in taxes to pave & maintain a mile of Interstate?
but they are happy to drive on roadways that someone else paid for.
This trash support a Constitution that includes "general welfare" & "common good'.
They really do love their lifestyle benefits that were paid for by others.
I'm happy to debate the Right's hypocritical pretzel logic.
Let me respond to those on the Right that might respond: SOCIALISTS!

Independents rule! You Right wing takers have nothing but your hypocrisy! Keep trying!
The Right is in awe of HEYYOU's brilliance.
Actually there is nothing brilliant it's just facts with tough ass criticism.
10   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 12:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here's a perfect example of how it's really the right that trolls and acts mostly on emotion.

I post this:

marcus says
IT's true that the identity politics obsessed far left has a problem with Jordan Peterson,. but that problem is that too many of their own (myself for example), like his message, and reject identity politics. IF you think that means they are changing their mind about fairly taxing high and corporate incomes, or health care policy and so on, you are mistaken.

Identity politics on both sides is a distraction from real issues.

The left has Noam CHomsky or the more moderate Brett and Eric Wienstein, or Sam Harris. Moderate democrats are happy to listen to civil conversation that Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, or Dave Rubin is a part of.

The truth is that labels left and right, "conservative" and "liberal" and even "progressive" have totally lost their meaning, compared to decades ago. IF you listen to Joe Rogan, much of the time you wouldn't know if you are listening to someone that usually votes democrat or republican.


And this is the reasoned response from a patrick.net right winger:

MrMagic says
11   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 11, 12:42pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Marcus has a terrible memory, but I believe he’s in process of being red pilled by Peterson, which is encouraging!
I’ll agree with him that Peterson isn’t a conservative but a classical Liberal. Which honestly fits me as well. More or less.
12   HEYYOU   ignore (21)   2018 Aug 11, 12:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

How Many Republicans are on some form of individual govt. handouts or business subsidies?
What will it cost in Republicans' taxes to bail out the victims of your dumb ass trade war?
How many Republicans have reached the American Dream under MAGA. Coal miners? Rust belters? All the Red States that are getting more from the Federal govt. than they pay in?
Poor broke ass Rep/Cons working to survive while Traitor remodels the White House,again?
When that's finished Traitor will send the crews to remodel Appalachia.

Independents can leave the Right with nothing in their brains.
They try to keep coming back & end up looking like fools.
Dying dumb is on the Rights bucket list. They will all be successful.

Be thankful Democrats that you aren't in charge.
Fuck the idiots on Democratic Underground!
13   cmdrdataleak   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 11, 12:49pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

All this makes met think that the Left and the Right have a lot more in common than do the Triabliasts (Identity Politics adherents) and the Individualists (judge a man by the content of his character).

Maybe there's hope for a future not of American divisiveness, but of a reacknowledgement and celebration of the Individualist majority.
14   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 12:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
Marcus has a terrible memory, but I believe he’s in process of being red pilled by Peterson, which is encouraging!


I started listening to Peterson in early 2017 or so, but my point of view was always similar. His talks about Jungian psychology, archetypes, myths, religion, and modern identity politics ? These all fit me well. Yes, he's a true liberal.

Remember my religion arguments with Dan ? Peterson debates with Sam Harris are a more thoughtful and less emotional version of the exact same arguments. Peterson sees the radical atheists exactly the same way I do, as basically hung up on an adolescent overly simplistic view, that is itself dogmatic and in a sense it's own religion. But Peterson frames it far better than I.
15   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 11, 12:54pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-the-left-is-so-afraid-of-jordan-peterson/567110/


Right, he's also avoided Goran's true statement that there are no Peterson's, Shapiro's etc. on the left. The right is far more diverse these days, and even the ultra right wingers - while they may talk in dismay or disagreement about the centrists and Libertarians - do not actively smear or interrupt anybody on the center right. Whereas on the left you cannot have any dissent as they will be shouted and burned down instantly, which creates the leftoid echo-chamber you have to day, lacking any diversity of thought, causing the Dems to lose election after election. They are the modern Klansmen, not tolerating any dissent, and therefore shrinking.
16   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 12:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
The right is far more diverse these days


That's simply not true. TO believe that, you would have to claim everything that is not far left as right .

THat would be mike my claiming everyone that is not a Trump Cuck as "the left."
17   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 11, 1:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
mell says
The right is far more diverse these days


That's simply not true. TO believe that, you would have to claim everything that is not far left as right ?

THat would be mike my claiming everyone that is not a Trump Cuck as "the left."


I think this is an obvious fact but honestly I don't care if you label Peterson as left or right, if you want to chalk him up for the left or the liberals I have no problem with that - although I disagree - but you have to admit that he would not be winning the primaries running for the Dems as he would be run out of town instantly by the leftist mob governing every step of the current Democratic party, on the inside and the outside (social medial SJWs, Antifa etc.). The right has a wide spectrum, starting from Peterson (if you group him as right-leaning), the Libertarians, through the Bannon's all the way to the fringes of hardcore religious conservatives or Richard Spencer's. They all more or less coexist, whereas on the left even someone like Obama suggesting that not only white people can be racist will be immediately ostracized and nazified. The sole fact that Trump won the primaries and the other contender - albeit begrudgingly - paved the way for him shows the diversity. Trump winning the primaries is like Sanders or - on the centrist side - a pro-life, pro-border security, anti-illegal-immigration Democrat farmer from the heartland winning the Democratic primaries. Never going to happen as long as the leftist politburo is in charge.
18   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 11, 1:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
TO believe that, you would have to claim everything that is not far left as right


Since he is claiming that the Left has become monolithic in ideology tolerating no dissent or divergence in thought, by definition anything different IS outside the Left. If you want to call that “Right,” well fine, but classical liberals like Peterson tend to balk at being labeled right wing or conservative. But yes, when your entire political culture is in lockstep, anyone not goose stepping along in time is different and thus a hated outsider.
19   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 1:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
he is claiming that the Left has become monolithic in ideology tolerating no dissent or divergence in thought, by definition anything different IS outside the Left.


This is an error. IT actually exemplifies the fact that intellectual honesty is higher on the moderate left than on the moderate right.

I understand that not nearly all republicans are racist (although too many are blind to the extent to which it is exploited on the right). I'm not going to make such statements about all republicans having those views, and it isn't becasue there is more diversity on the right. You just happen to be listening to more diverse voices "on the right."

The huge percentage of people on the moderate left, don't challenge the identity politics, and SJW voices enough, I guess becasue of what's seen as "virtue" associated with it, and becasue of what's seen as political self interest (misguided).

It's comparable in some ways to moderate republicans being overly silent about racism on the right. It's different, but what's the same is that not condemning it, is not the same as backing it. I'm sure when it comes to racism it's easy for you to see what I'm talking about.

The identity politcs on the right happens to be working for you guys now, in a way. Where as the identity politics on the left is not working for the left.

Maybe what's going on is that the left is forward looking with respect to demographics and therefore is afraid to shoot itself in the foot. This is messed up, and increases the tribalism in the same way that the identity politics on the right does. But if you think about it, it's not about what moderates on the left actually think.

It's about politics. In the same way that tolerance of racism on the right is about politics.
20   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 11, 1:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Lefts argument is simple... “we want free shit from taxpayers”. Rest is just verbal BS trying to get it, race baiting, blaming whites, identity politics, feminism, etc...
21   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 3:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
The left is losing because their ideas don’t stand up to fact based debate


You mean like this ?

FortWayne says
Lefts argument is simple... “we want free shit from taxpayers”
22   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 11, 4:17pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TrumpCuck says

The American "left" is an almost entirely imaginary entity that exists most powerfully in the mind of those easily manipulated by the media. Congrats on that ;)


Lol, if you want them to appear (and to beat the shit out of you, so you can be certain they are real) try walking around with a MAGA hat.

C'mon, prove me wrong!
23   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 11, 10:58pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Goran_K says
The left is losing because their ideas don’t stand up to fact based debate


You mean like this ?

FortWayne says
Lefts argument is simple... “we want free shit from taxpayers”


How is the claim wrong?
24   marcus   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 11, 11:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
How is the claim wrong?


What taxes are spent on is something we should all have a say in.

You might not think it's fair that someone that makes makes 600K a year pays so much more in taxes than someone that makes 60K, or that they should get to have way more h of a say in how big the deficits are that we run by not taxing the 600K guy more.

None of thses questions are easy or trivial, they certainly can't be reduced to something a simple and stupid as

Goran_K says
FortWayne says
Lefts argument is simple... “we want free shit from taxpayers”


What about the wealthy liberal intellectual that doesn't have children, and is going to pay for his own health care anyway ? If he thinks the best thing in the long run for America, would be to have college far more subsidized for a a lot of students, and some kind of a two tier health care system that has some sort of basic health care provided to everyone and paid for with taxes. (which will obviously eventually exist).

That guy is a counter example to the overly simplified "we want free shit from taxpyers," becasue he wants it for others, not for himself.

IT's too simple and yes, really stupid.

It would by like boiling the right wings position down to: "the right wants to split the country into an ever increasing economic inequality of the haves and have nots. Gated communities for the haves, and some sort of police state ghettos, shanty towns and prisons for the have nots."




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